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Do you have any more info on the tournament yet? I'll make the 4 hour drive.
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Shukokai of old did allow leg sweeps, but they could be defended merely by having a solid stance, so you didn't move your legs to avoid them.
But the good sweepers almost always downed you if they timed it right, sweeping one leg as you kicked with the other.
But we had no mats. I used to hit the deck like a sack of shite.
Ouch again.Comment
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I have always had good success with sweeping. I will usually step in with a jab, cross combo and at that point most people move back or move their feet to avoid getting hit that’s when I sweep their foot as it’s moving.
It also works well when people step in to close distance I’ll sweep their foot just before they put their foot down or as it is sliding forward. Most of the time they will go to the ground or loose balance and have to fight to stay on their feet. If they don’t move their feet then I’ll go for the leg kick but I don’t sweep a foot that is planted on the floor.Comment
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Your posts brought up some fond memories. One of the first few times I sparred hard in muay thai, it was with this guy who was about my height, but weighed 210.
I had boxed for about a year, so I could hit and move. When he started throwing full power low kicks they wreaked havoc on my thigh, but I kept my poker face.
I flurried in on him to keep him in punching range and soften him up with body hooks and short rights. But kept his lateral movement and my thigh charged into one of his low kicks. My left thigh was purple inside and out.
The next morning, I had difficulty putting weight on it and so I hobbled into my car and all around!Comment
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It depends totally on the person. This is stupid to even discuss. Do you think just because a certain style doesn't teach some moves that the practitioners wouldn't use the technique. I train in tkd but out instructor is very open minded. He isn't so prideful that he believes TKD is all conquering if he sees a technique and thinks it has a practical use he masters it and then teaches it. We learn ground fighting, close quarters self- defense, weapons disarms and weapons fighting. If you get a good instructor who is open minded I dont care if he is teaching tkd or muay thai or kung fu or anything else you can come up with you are still going to get good instruction. When an instructor of a certain style is closed minded to only traditional techniques of the style then thats when a specific style sux. I personally believe I could take a muay thai fighter of equal skill and size to me. But then there are tkd practioners that couldn't. It all depends on your mindset and your instructors mindset. Whatever else are instructor incorporates into are training is just a complement but out school is still a TKD school.Comment
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I think you are kidding yourself.
I would never assume I could defeat anyone from another art unless I actually trained in their art extensively. How else would you even know what you needed to defend from? I certainly wouldn't go up against a judo guy without learning his game first.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKDComment
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Just because I don't train extensively in Muay Thai doesn't mean I don't understand what a muay thai fighter is going to bring into the game. Do you think ufc fighters train in every single style they are going to go against. No, they just understand what that specific fighters style brings to the table. You make it sound as if I am going to go into a fight with a mua thai boxer and not expect to get kicked at low. And about a judo guy or whatever I am not talking a street fight I am talking full contact sparring. A judo guy isn't going to sparr you like that he is going to throw you and grapple with you. Now in a street fight that is a whole different story and would be stupid to even discuss who would win.Comment
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Ya I'm not talking street fight, that has nothing to do with the art, only the fighter. If you go into a Muay Thai format (meaning you fight by their rules) and you don't study Muay Thai you will get creamed simple as that... I'm not guessing here, I've been training TKD for 13 years and I had to study and train the art of Muay Thai before I started fighting in their arenas or I would have been kidding myself. Same for Judo, if you go into their format and you don't actually train in judo they will throw you around like a toddler and make you eat matt. They are experts at their game, just like we are experts at ours.
This is what kills me, when you said this" You make it sound as if I am going to go into a fight with a muay thai boxer and not expect to get kicked at low" you can expect it all you want, is that going to suddenly give you the reflexes and defense associated with leg kicks? No, you need to train defending leg kicks regularly for your reflexes to kick into play in the heat of the moment in full contact fighting. Just like the Muay Thai fighters do. Also they do a whole lot more than leg kick, they grab you and throw you around while kneeing and elbowing the poop out of you and if you don't know how to defend in that position it's over.
Listen, I'm going to assume you're really good at TKD. Now look at your skills and your amazing reflexes associated with the techniques you study ALL the time. Now do you really truly think you can get the same timing and reflexes that you have with what you do study now and suddenly have them for other techniques you don't study or barely study in comparison to everything else? As an example when I first started sparring Muay Thai format I could block everyones kicks that were above the belt, my reflexes are honed to a sharp edge when it comes to those angles of attack, but when someone threw a kick at my legs I would hesitate and defend improperly. It took alot of work to build up my visual recognition of leg kicks and the reflexes associated with defending them.
NOW I'm going to flip the coin over, I wrote my 4th degree thesis on using TKD in Muay Thai formats and what advantages it brings. Basically if you have a formidable TKD background you have extra weapons that are coming from angles of attack that alot of traditional Muay Thai fighters will not recognise and won't have the defensive reflexes for. Examples are hammer kick and turning sidekick. These work wonders, especially on Thai fighters as they rarely see these kicks.
As for the UFC, I don't think you are aware that regardless of what background they come from they all train grappling of some sort and striking with the majority using Muay Thai as their base for striking. They don't just know about other arts, they study and train them to make them instinct.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKDComment
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All this gets back to my very first point and that is that this speculation is stupid. A muay thai fighter would lose sparring my our rules. A bjj blackbelt would lose in the boxing ring. You have to train for whatever you do. When I said full contact sparring I was talking with karate rules. I understand what you are saying though. Now just to cause a little controversy: I do honestly believe that an equally trained tkd practioners would win in a street fight with a muay thai fighter. I will explain when someone disagrees.Comment
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I agree, if you go into someone elses format and try to play by their rules without studying and training them you will be hard pressed to succeed.
I disagree with your opinion that TKD would defeat Muay Thai in a street fight though because to me when it comes to street fighting your art has little to do with it. It is more based on the individual fighter. I've met TKD guys that could take your head off faster than you can blink, I've also met TKD guys that couldn't fight there way out of a wet paper bag. Same goes for alot of different martial artists I've encountered and trained with, some are dangerous and some are a joke, I've realised what art they study is meaningless, they are either warriors and train accordingly or they are not.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKDComment
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I agree with everything you are saying that is why I clarified of equal skill. If they were equally skilled in there respective styles TKD would win. TKD consists of way more weapons then muay thai. Especially hand techniques.Comment
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Having a lot of techniques doesn't win a fight. I spar guys all the time in my karate class who work on all these fancy kicks, but I beat a lot of them with jabs, crosses, and feinted kicks. In fact, sometimes all I do is jab.
Later...Comment
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I disagree with you completely.Originally posted by bvermillion
All this gets back to my very first point and that is that this speculation is stupid. A muay thai fighter would lose sparring my our rules. A bjj blackbelt would lose in the boxing ring. You have to train for whatever you do. When I said full contact sparring I was talking with karate rules. I understand what you are saying though. Now just to cause a little controversy: I do honestly believe that an equally trained tkd practioners would win in a street fight with a muay thai fighter. I will explain when someone disagrees.
"I do honestly believe that an equally trained TKD practioners will win in a street fight with a Muay Thai fighter. I will explain when someone disagrees."
What a load of crap. A TKD practitioner beat a Muay Thai fighter in a real fight now that's a good one.You make me laugh.
Those fancy jumping air kicks from TKD mean shit in a real situation.
Please do explain .Comment
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HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM,That's funny I always thought TKD was mostly legs and very few hand techniques.Originally posted by bvermillion
I agree with everything you are saying that is why I clarified of equal skill. If they were equally skilled in there respective styles TKD would win. TKD consists of way more weapons then muay thai. Especially hand techniques.Comment
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Heh I was waiting for MTF to jump in.
Like I said earlier I've been VERY exposed to many different martial artists and I've concluded it's not the art it's the fighter. I've met plenty of Muay Thai guys I could have beaten easily even before I trained in Muay Thai, not all Muay Thai practitioners are as serious and hardcore as you and me MTF. Maybe at your academy they are but the clubs I've seen have their share of regular working guys that don't like getting hit and just want excercise.
But anyway, MTF I just want to talk about a couple of misconceptions you have about TKD. We practice jumping kicks ya, but the really flashy ones don't get much actual sparring use, we stick to the basics much like kickboxing. Kind of like practicing flying knee in Muay Thai, you might never use it but it's fun to practice it every once in a while. Also you have to remember there are 2 major forms of TKD: one that has lots of hands (more traditional) and one that has barely any (olympic style). The one I do uses hands ALOT, it's my primary weapon. I'm not telling you this to defend bvermillions opinions, I'm just clearing up the misconceptions.
Damian Mavis
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