Running

[treelizard]

I haven't read the articles you posted, and I've only perused most of your replies. So in terms of "winning the argument" it's all yours.

I gathered that you hadn't read anything I'd written. Glad to provide some entertainment, though!

[Tom Yum]

I think homeopathy is interesting too!!!

Ok Tree, which personality of yours are we talking too tonight....

[treelizard]

I think homeopathy is interesting too!!!

[Tom Yum]

Interesting!

Not as interesting as this.

Homeopathy sometimes uses ice but only to treat frostbite--they often use the law of similars. Mild heat is used to treat burns, inflammation, etc. Like cures like.

[treelizard]

That comes off as a little self-righteous and elitist.

Great logical fallacy. "Name calling."

[treelizard]

There are tons of studies that show Modern Medicine is good for you too. But you aren't acknowledging those, are you?

Maybe I'll address that after you acknowledge the many many many many many logical fallacies you've made that I've already pointed out.

[treelizard]

So what you're trying to prove is Tree knows best........BWAHAhAhahAHhahahaHAHAHAHAHAHH !

It makes perfect sense to me. You're likely a subject expert.

No flip-flop views here, Tree.

Interesting!

[Tom Yum]

Not trying to prove anything, just find it slightly amusing but mostly kind of sad that people would rather be "right" and unhealthy.

That comes off as a little self-righteous and elitist.

[treelizard]

I'm far from a subject expert. And I'm not starting a Chinese med thread.

[Tom Yum]

Pretty interesting that you want me to start a thread on Chinese herbs when you could do your own research or go to modern medicine then. Hmmmm.....

It makes perfect sense to me. You're likely a subject expert. Still if what you say doesn't jive with modern medicine, seems dangerous and has little to no real research backing it, you might want to make a disclaimer.

As far as ginseng, yes there is evidence that it can reduce fatigue, increase endurance and improve performance but it can mask the symptoms of burnout while deeper destruction from lifestyle issues continues unabated. The best "cure" for burnout is rest, nutrition, well digested food and looking at things like food intolerances, insulin resistance, etc. Any acupuncturist worth their salt (I thought you said you didn't know about Chinese herbs...) would look at the whole person when determining which herbs they should take or what other changes they need to make, instead of just recommending an herb based on an article.

This is the kind of stuff you should be posting on your Chinese meds thread.

[treelizard]

I pulled up my own research to support my arguments for it. To be honest, you're not the only person to convince me of accupuncture's benefits. I'm kinda familar with that stuff...

Yeah, I kinda got suspicious when you said "You've sold me on acupuncture, Tree"--thanks for confirming my suspicions.

If you want to convince others against it, do your own homework

I could just hand them articles that my coworker has given me, but I wouldn't want to convince others against something that works.

So what you're trying to prove is Tree knows best....

Not trying to prove anything, just find it slightly amusing but mostly kind of sad that people would rather be "right" and unhealthy.

[treelizard]

No flip-flop views here, Tree.

Pretty interesting that you want me to start a thread on Chinese herbs when you could do your own research or go to modern medicine then. Hmmmm....

As far as ginseng, yes there is evidence that it can reduce fatigue, increase endurance and improve performance but it can mask the symptoms of burnout while deeper destruction from lifestyle issues continues unabated. The best "cure" for burnout is rest, nutrition, well digested food and looking at things like food intolerances, insulin resistance, etc. Any acupuncturist worth their salt (I thought you said you didn't know about Chinese herbs...) would look at the whole person when determining which herbs they should take or what other changes they need to make, instead of just recommending an herb based on an article.

If you're going to use a scientific approach, I'd expect you to analyze these articles on rats you find to determine whether the studies are based on humans, account for confounding factors, use appropriate form, dosage and duration, measure real results instead of indicators, are interpreted properly, fit in context of the larger body of research, do not have deliberate bias, have significant results, etc. etc. etc.

Or you could just go with what "many athletes sware by." Doesn't matter to me.

[Tom Yum]

If you spend some time on Medline you can find a lot of "proof" that acupuncture doesn't work that is more convincing than your arguments (and You can find all kinds of arguments against acupuncture on the same websites that discount homeopathy. Have a field day. Meanwhile other people will be getting acupuncture (or homeopathy) and benefitting from it, or getting their fractured wrists healed by tai chi masters or using methods that work even when they are dismissed by "real studies from legitimate medical institutions.".

I pulled up my own research to support my arguments for it. To be honest, you're not the only person to convince me of accupuncture's benefits. I'm kinda familar with that stuff...

If you want to convince others against it, do your own homework

It's funny, because the guy at my work who is always putting studies in my box about how acupuncture doesn't work could probably really benefit from it for some of his health problems, but some people would rather be "right" than be "healthy." Yes, it's a personal choice.

So what you're trying to prove is Tree knows best....














....BWAHAhAhahAHhahahaHAHAHAHAHAHH !

[treelizard]

It could be a placebo, who knows?

Its hard to argue against one of the nations top cancer research centers and many others regularly use it and swear by it. But its just a personal choice.

If you spend some time on Medline you can find a lot of "proof" that acupuncture doesn't work that is more convincing than your arguments (

You got me sold on accupuncture, Tree.

and

Chinese-meds ain't bad, Mike - well atleast accupuncture/accupressure. I've known a few athletes who swear by it.

You can find all kinds of arguments against acupuncture on the same websites that discount homeopathy. Have a field day. Meanwhile other people will be getting acupuncture (or homeopathy) and benefitting from it, or getting their fractured wrists healed by tai chi masters or using methods that work even when they are dismissed by "real studies from legitimate medical institutions."

It's funny, because the guy at my work who is always putting studies in my box about how acupuncture doesn't work could probably really benefit from it for some of his health problems, but some people would rather be "right" than be "healthy." Yes, it's a personal choice.

[Tom Yum]

Your flip-flop views on Chinese herbs are also quite interesting...

No flip-flop views here, Tree.

I'll only support medicines and treatments that are backed by research from modern medicine. Take Ginseng, for instance.

Ginseng
Ginseng is promoted as an adaptogen (a product that increases the body's resistance to stress), a vague claim, but one which can to a certain extent be supported with reference to its anticarcinogenic and antioxidant properties.

"A comparative, randomized and double-blind government study does indicate it to be "a promising dietary supplement" when assessed for an increase in quality of life."

Caso Marasco A, Vargas Ruiz R, Salas Villagomez A, Begona Infante C. (1996). "Double-blind study of a multivitamin complex supplemented with ginseng extract". Drugs Exp Clin Res. 22 (6): 323–329. PMID 9034759

"Panax ginseng appear to inhibit some characteristics associated with cancer in animal models"

1) Shin HR, Kim JY, Yun TK, Morgan G, Vainio H (2000). "The cancer-preventive potential of Panax ginseng: a review of human and experimental evidence". Cancer Causes Control 11 (6): 565–576. PMID 10880039.

2) Vanderbilt-Ingram Cancer Research Center, Vanderbuilt Univ.

http://sitemason.vanderbilt.edu/newspub/crmQtG?id=25328