Running

[treelizard]

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/homeop.html

[Tom Yum]

but the fact that chemistry states that there is a limit to how much substances can be diluted without losing the original substance altogether (most homeopathic remedies far exceed the limit).

Can you cite this theory?

Dilutions can be done to part per billion level and even smaller. You'll never 'lose' a substance, unless it chemically reacts to form a new, different substance.

There is some research done that by epidemiologist/homeopathist Dr. Jacque Benveniste saying that water may have a memory and be able to store information about an active substance even when highly diluted.

If you add a substance to water, any substance it either reacts or mixes. Sounds like you are talking about mixtures. Water will dissolve molecules that are like itself; those that are either polar or demonstrate H-bonding like alcohol. Water repels molecules that are not polar, like hydrocarbons (oil). What do you mean by memory?

[treelizard]

As far as modern-day bloodletters--do you think people died from bloodletting because a lot of them were getting it done? What about people who used to die from surgeries before docs started washing their hands? Were they dying because a lot of them were getting surgeries? Why is it that the death rate goes DOWN during doctor strikes, which was the content of the article? Interested in hearing your explanation of that.

As far as homeopathy, you could use homeopathic doses of arnica for swelling. It works really well. I dropped a weight on my finger once, was expecting huge bruises but the arnica fixed it right up.

Apparently you've missed the part where I said you would use small amounts of the substance, not the same amount.

I actually think it's more interesting why people outright dismiss homeopathy than in the content of the argument itself.

Dr. Hahnemann conducted "provings" on each remedy to determine their characteristics. He gave healthy people (starting with himself) small crude doses of the substance (not enough to hurt them) and observed what symptoms developed, noting the variety of symptoms unique to that substance. Then he used the substance (potentized) to treat those same symptoms.

I've taken the wrong dose of arnica and DEVELOPED bruises, and same with rhus--wrong dose and developed rashes, and so I was anti-homeopathy for a long time, but then I learned about proper dosing, etc.

Actually, a better criticism of homeopathy (assuming you're not opposed to vaccines) is not to discount the concept of like treating like, but the fact that chemistry states that there is a limit to how much substances can be diluted without losing the original substance altogether (most homeopathic remedies far exceed the limit).

There is some research done that by epidemiologist/homeopathist Dr. Jacque Benveniste saying that water may have a memory and be able to store information about an active substance even when highly diluted. His research (which cost him his job) shows that an antibody solution continued to evoke a biological response even when it was diluted in a 1:1030 ratio of serum to water. This is far beyond the dilution limit when even a single molecule of the original substance would be present in the water. His theory is that the substance leaves some sort of energetic imprint on water molecules that has a continuing effect ---possibly supporting the homeopathic thesis of potency even in dilution.

As far as ice--it can reduce swelling and palliate pain, for sure. I'd rather remove the reason why something is swelling than constrict the tissue. I'm not sure exactly why they don't use it in TCM except that it causes stagnation. I know Tom Bisio wrote about this--someone mentioned it to me when I suggested ice packs on an FMA list months ago. Bisio will use ice immediately upon impact, but he says that ice can produce stagnation of fluid and energy in the area, which can potentially create long-term problems like recurring pain or lack of mobility. (Tom Bisio - the book is A Tooth From the Tiger's Mouth, and here's his site: http://www.tombisio.com/about.htm )

[Tom Yum]

DAMMIT, I can't pos-rep until I spread more around!

[Garland]

I told him I could see the new warning labels on exercise equipment already:

That is basicly what every one of my old football coaches used to say...

[Tom Yum]

My friend who studies Heilkunst has used snow to cure frostbite and heat for serious burns (the burns recovered without scarring.)

I had a friend who studied wiskunde en medicijn and he used warmth to heal frostbite and cooling plus ointment to heal burns...

[Tom Yum]

(Somebody tell me you're getting the same visuals I am. This shit's funny!!)

...............

No pee, but a good chuckle indeed.

[Tom Yum]

Uh huh. So fevers are the body's way of heating up and killing of infection. So if we have a person who suffers from a 105 degree fever, we ought ot just warm him up more? And using ice to cure frostbite? Frostbite is not the body's response to cold, it's the effect of cold in tissue. How is cooling a frostbitten limb the best answer?

Mike, I agree with you on this one.

The only aspects of Chinese medicine that I'm into are the accupuncture/pressure.

Some herbs are good for health maintenance, but I also don't buy into some of the remedies and concepts that I've heard. Like the example above, if someone is experiencing an extremely high fever they should be cooled, so that the temperature increase doesn't damage the body.

[treelizard]

It's not that I think my methods for treating injuries are any better - it's that I don't use any methods for treating my injuries. I don't go to doctors and I don't go to chiropractors.

Well, that would make it hard for you to tell whether they would help or not, wouldn't it? If you were going to say that chiropracty doesn't work, the fact that you've never been to one and keep training despite injuries proves absolutely nothing except that it's possible to keep training despite injuries without chiropractic. It doesn't demonstrate whether chiropractic would help or would not help in your particular case, let alone anybody else's.

And since you've never tried not using ice, that doesn't really prove anything either, except that you decided to use it because the doctors that you don't go to (who kill their clients, btw) would recommend it.

[treelizard]

I've actually used fairly mild heat on a burn. It hurt at first but the healing was very very fast.

My friend who studies Heilkunst has used snow to cure frostbite and heat for serious burns (the burns recovered without scarring.)

Also the flu clinic at the Hahnemann Center for Heilkunst has a 100% success rate, hmmm....

And Hahnemann WAS a doctor--he was using the law of similars when the good scientific docs were using leeches.

[treelizard]

I don't remember where you posted it, but I seem to remember something about you saying that you had so many hip, knee, back, etc. injuries that you couldn't even run. That doesn't sound like the model of good health to me, so perhaps you're not in the position to critique methods of medicine that you haven't even looked into, let alone researched or experienced.

The fact that you continue to train with injuries doesn't prove anything.

And as far as people benefitting from modern medicine, what about people dying from modern medicine? A conservative estimate of iatrogenic deaths is 250,000 and the higher estimate is 750,000... (This includes drugs, sometimes the wrong ones and sometimes the "right" ones, surgery and nosocomial infections.)

It's the third leading cause of death in this continent. Paul Bergner posited the question of whether modern medicine actually kills more people than it saves, since whenever there are doctor strikes the mortality rate falls and then rises again when the strike is over... and this has happened in Canada, Holland and Israel as well as North and South America.

http://naimh.com/files/doctor-strikes.pdf (make sure to read the responses as well)

[treelizard]

Actually, I know two TCM docs who are combat vets and healthy as ever. And I just ran into one who was a kickboxer (not sure how long) and has been in several motorcycle accidents and doesn't have any nagging injuries. In addition, I also know someone who was basically hospitalized for years with a condition that the doctors couldn't exactly diagnosed, and Heilkunst basically cured her.

Do a search on Samuel Hahnemann if you want to learn something about the basis behind homeopathy past your knee-jerk reaction. Or not.

Have fun on the elliptical.

http://altmed.creighton.edu/Homeopathy/history.htm

[Tom Yum]

You probably don't know any traditional chinese doctors who made a career out of throwing themselves out of helicopters, running across battlefields, firing huge automatic weapons, or trading fire with enemy soldiers either. I bet if they had done such things, they'd have an occasional "twinge" here and there also.

How about Boar?

Besides, aren't you keeping up? My "chronic nagging injuries" haven't been getting in the way of anything I'm doing lately! I'm outpacing some of my young, fit boxers, and I'm sparring twice as much!

That's bad ass, Mike!

[Tom Yum]

BWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

LOL...I'm pos-reping for the tyranical laughter alone !

Chinese-meds ain't bad, Mike - well atleast accupuncture/accupressure. I've known a few athletes who swear by it.

Some of those concoctions though, make you wonder.....
why the heck am I eating dried scorpion soup again???

BACK ON TOPIC:

AM - Banged out 86 pushups in 2:00, went to the latrine.
Banged out 50+ per 2:00, shaved
Banged out 40 some per 2:00, hit the shower

Early PM - Finished a 9-mile cadence jog this afternoon.

Study, Study, Study

Later this evening - 5 sets of pullups, 5 sets of chins.

HELL YEAH!!!

[treelizard]

Laugh all you want, you're the one with all the chronic, nagging injuries. I don't know any Chinese docs or homeopathic docs with chronic nagging injuries. Hmmmmmmmm......

It's amazing how many people with injury issues will give advice on injuries. Kind of like all of the folks who are bankrupt who like to give out advice about money....