Traditional Kung FU

[TTEscrima]

Not very long at all.

Perhaps you should inquire about the relationship between the diagonal strike and opposite hand opposite foot jin timing in setting up your throws. The Diagonal strike should be the first technique taught as all other SC techniques are built upon it. It's the first movement in the traditional form. Depending on the branch of SC you're studying you should be learning to unroot the opponent as soon as you make contact, this is accomplished through the Diagonal strike or a upward kick to the leg, this sets the throws up. GM Chang was well recognized for his ability to set an opponent up and defeat him through a well planned combination of movements that led the opponent into the throw.

[csc]

Exactly how long have you been a student of SJ?

Not very long at all.

[TTEscrima]

How did you come up such conclusion?

ROFLMMFAO. Priceless. Exactly how long have you been a student of SJ?

[csc]

SJ is based upon striking...

How did you come up such conclusion?

[TTEscrima]

You can throw someone down without hurting him. You cannot knock someone down without hurting him.


You can have a winner come out of this in the throwing environemnt, but you can't have a winner come out of this in the striking environment. That will take most of the fun out of it.

I've read some of your posts and you seem to be ignoring the fact that SJ is based upon striking. I often encounter people who seem to be unaware of this although they claim SJ lineage which strikes me odd. You speak of throwing people instead of striking them, this is in DIRECT violation of every tenet of SJ. SJ has two elements which form the basis of the entire art: The Diagonal strike and opposite hand, opposite foot jin. Without those 2 elements you are grappling in order to achieve the unrooting of the opponent, this is not SJ.

[csc]

I've not seen any mounted work. Does SJ contain that?

SC does not have ground work but it does have "follow up strikes - step on the head, knee drop on the chest, ..." and "follow up locks - bowing throw turns into an arm bar, head lock leg blocking throw turns into an elbow lock, ...". You may drop one knee on the ground, but you still keep yourself in a "spring posture". You try as hard as you can not to go down. Sometime after you have taken your opponent down, you are already 10 feet away from him. If you train in a big room, your instructor may want you to take your opponent down and keep running until your hands touch the other side of the wall (usually about 20 feet away).

Hit and run with mobility is the main training in SC. The issue is the moment that you train your ground skill, you will no longer train your "hit and run" and "run your opponent down" skill. It's a trade off and there is no right and wrong here.

I have always believed that "pulling guard" is a true "throwing art killer" but that's beyound this discussion.

[clfsean]

It is more effective when you think in terms of using the people your throw as human a projectiles, it is possible to aim people when you throw them, thus launching them into the other opponents.

Nothing wrong with that in my mind...

It's not built for the mount, that is a concept you will find futile when dealing with multiple opponents.

No joke.

SJ deals with incapacitating your opponent with the throw, or a strike prior to the throw.

That's what I thought. That's the way I approach it as well but with CLF not SJ.

TCMA's all express how going to the ground isn't a good idea, having a ground game or cross training in one today isn't a bad idea, but really is something you want to try to avoid at all costs.

No, it's nothing bad at all to have in the toolbox. I've got a couple of years of JJJ & a dab of aikido in the footlocker as well as kum na & suei gok (SJ) from CLF. I just personally don't like rolling around on the ground. I probably need to try it for a bit one day, but not today.

[kingoftheforest]

I haven't ever seen IME a lot of ground play in SJ. Take downs, throws, sweeps, etc... but I've not seen any mounted work. Does SJ contain that? If not, I don't look at it so much as wrestling in practice as just in name IMHO. Otherwise, I'd be comfy with SJ & the multiple idea.

It is more effective when you think in terms of using the people you throw as human projectiles, it is possible to aim people when you throw them, thus launching them into the other opponents.

It's not built for the mount, that is a concept you will find futile when dealing with multiple opponents.

SJ deals with incapacitating your opponent with the throw, or a strike prior to the throw.

TCMA's all express how going to the ground isn't a good idea, having a ground game or cross training in one today isn't a bad idea, but really is something you want to try to avoid at all costs.

[clfsean]

I have heard of the effectiveness of Shuai Jiao, but you're not going to be able to take every person out with a trhow, some people will get back up. Against multiple opponents wrestling is in my opinion one of the less viable options I would use.

I haven't ever seen IME a lot of ground play in SJ. Take downs, throws, sweeps, etc... but I've not seen any mounted work. Does SJ contain that? If not, I don't look at it so much as wrestling in practice as just in name IMHO. Otherwise, I'd be comfy with SJ & the multiple idea.

[tenzen]

i would like to second that motion ben

[Ben Grimm]

I have heard of the effectiveness of Shuai Jiao, but you're not going to be able to take every person out with a trhow, some people will get back up. Against multiple opponents wrestling is in my opinion one of the less viable options I would use.

[Sagacious Lu]

When you throw someone down, he is out of the game and he cannot get back up. This way the group will get smaller and smaller until there is only one person left.

It sounds like the game is designed to teach you how to keep your feet in a big violent crowd.

[csc]

Your logic seems a bit off here.

When you throw someone down, he is out of the game and he cannot get back up. This way the group will get smaller and smaller until there is only one person left.

It's very hard to eliminate anyone out of the game if everybody get hit. Unless you put white powder on everybody's hands and feet, but that will cause a big "fog" and not good for health. Believe me, I have thought about this before. In China, they come out of a chest pad that if you hit on it, the red light will be on. You may be able to use this but it only works for the chest area.

You can throw someone down without hurting him. You cannot knock someone down without hurting him.

It's pretty simple, he believes it's easier to wrestle multiple opponents than it is to deal with them by striking.

You can have a winner come out of this in the throwing environemnt, but you can't have a winner come out of this in the striking environment. That will take most of the fun out of it.

As far as which one is harder?

- A punches B's head, C punches B's chest, D punches B's belly, all at the same time with full power.
- A pulls B's right leg, C pull's B's left leg, D presses down B's head, all at the same time.

A may get hurt in the striking environment, but he may not get hurt in the throwing environment. That's the difference.

[TTEscrima]

He has certainly confused the hell out of me.

It's pretty simple, he believes it's easier to wrestle multiple opponents than it is to deal with them by striking.

[Ben Grimm]

He has certainly confused the hell out of me.