Why are traditional martial arts seen as "ineffective"?

[sherwinc]

Granted there's nothing like the real thing but the object is to get as close to it as possible. Your kung fu hanky panky isnt close, full contact or fist fights are closer to the real thing.

Then open a tournament/ringmatch with fist fights the only most closer to the real thing....

example:
Diarahnation versus Big/Wild Lion

Note:
no rules

then this is the most closest to the real thing......

Note:
no fear to enter jail if you permanently disabled your opponent within one hit..... (one hit to the eyes equals permanent disabled)


Lesson:
Tournament - RingMath are not a thing closest to the real fight... why?
cause after 12round of fights - still both fighters are willing to fight to the next 13th round..... and eventhou how tough the opponent - still his eyes and groin are still vulnerable with only one hit - permanent disabled results....

CONVINCED??????

Note:
Human Dummy Fights is not the closest to the real thing...... the most important thing is to defeat your opponent while your opponent doesnt hit you......

Note:
no handsome fighter joins the Human Dummy fights cause they will only look more uglier compare before, cause a lot of bruises, cuts and wound marks marked on thier handsome faces......

Note:
you notice that a lot of Human Dummy fighters are Ugly looking man?????
you also notice that a lot of KungFu are handsome man???????

Example:
1. Handsome KungFu:
BruceLee, JackieChan, JetLee, StevenChow, ChowYunFat, etc......

2. Ugly HumanDummy Fighters:
MohammedAli, Tyson, Frazzier, SugarRay, etc.......

[darrianation]

Then open a tournament/ringmatch with fist fights the only most closer to the real thing....

example:
Diarahnation versus Big/Wild Lion

Note:
no rules

then this is the most closest to the real thing......

Note:
no fear to enter jail if you permanently disabled your opponent within one hit..... (one hit to the eyes equals permanent disabled)


Lesson:
Tournament - RingMath are not a thing closest to the real fight... why?
cause after 12round of fights - still both fighters are willing to fight to the next 13th round..... and eventhou how tough the opponent - still his eyes and groin are still vulnerable with only one hit - permanent disabled results....

CONVINCED??????

Note:
Human Dummy Fights is not the closest to the real thing...... the most important thing is to defeat your opponent while your opponent doesnt hit you......

Note:
no handsome fighter joins the Human Dummy fights cause they will only look more uglier compare before, cause a lot of bruises, cuts and wound marks marked on thier handsome faces......

Note:
you notice that a lot of Human Dummy fighters are Ugly looking man?????
you also notice that a lot of KungFu are handsome man???????

Example:
1. Handsome KungFu:
BruceLee, JackieChan, JetLee, StevenChow, ChowYunFat, etc......

2. Ugly HumanDummy Fighters:
MohammedAli, Tyson, Frazzier, SugarRay, etc.......

So, beside fighting lions and tiger And going around picking fights with people What do you think would be a good venue or way to put your skills to the test while providing some way so you don’t loose an eye or a wind pipe?

I understand the UFCs and Pride are not perfect venues, but what are the alternatives? If you have a better way (I am not talking about fighting lions or mythical beasts) then tell us.

[CKD]

Sherwinc get the gracies in action tapes. They have bareknuckle, no rule fights, and there is no charge if you injure the opponent. But the kung fu guys still lost. Some competitions like the IVC still have the old UFC rules, whcih were also bareknuckle no rule events but the deadly kung fu still lost Sherwinc. No how about you and your instructor Ashida Kim practice those deadly moves.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

The fact that people think "martial virtue" equals not training full contact, in all ranges, not grappling, etc.

and the fact that people think "Alive/full contact training" equals not thinking of spiritual matters, martial art virtues, etc.

Is beyond me.


In a perfect world I guess...

[konghan]

The fact that people think "martial virtue" equals not training full contact, in all ranges, not grappling, etc.

and the fact that people think "Alive/full contact training" equals not thinking of spiritual matters, martial art virtues, etc.

Is beyond me.


In a perfect world I guess...

Your understanding of Martial Virtue is distorted.

[konghan]

Sherwinc get the gracies in action tapes. They have bareknuckle, no rule fights, and there is no charge if you injure the opponent. But the kung fu guys still lost. Some competitions like the IVC still have the old UFC rules, whcih were also bareknuckle no rule events but the deadly kung fu still lost Sherwinc. No how about you and your instructor Ashida Kim practice those deadly moves.

The Tiger Kung Fu guy lost to Gracie because he was fighting with an injured fist from an earlier boute. But inspite of that injury he was still able to land several blows to Gracie`s head openning a cut at Gracies eye brow. Gracie couldn`t execute his technique. The Kung fu guy was doing the right thing, stay low on his horse stance denying the grappler room to get in low at the same time landing his punches. In the end it was conditioning & stamina that won. Gracie proove that he was more condition & had more stamina to waite `till the kung fu guy got tired in fact it took about 5 min+ for Gracie to be able to win.

The kung fu guy was able to advance to that championship boute becuase he was able to defeat other UFC fighters. In fact, other grapplers, judokas & wrestlers perform poorly against strikers.

The bottom line is, majority of kung fu shools outside of China train not professionally for a ring career. Majority of them advance to pursue a non combat career.

Kung fu like the chinese people have live quietly & will just ignore all these criticism & continue to preserve the tradition & culture of kung fu. So, more power to all you.

UFC & its kind will come & go its survivability depends on how entertaining the managers can make of it, soon it will become just like WWF prefix fighting becuase its end goal is about business & entertainment not about martial art.

Same with muay thai, mauy thai traditional style of fighting is only available in Thailand. Here in the west modification have to be made like majority of muay thai boute here have remove the openning rituals of "dancing". Becuase it is not crowd pleasing.

[Thai Bri]

Gracie won. No matter how you try to dress it up. Yes?

[Tom Yum]

UFC & its kind will come & go its survivability depends on how entertaining the managers can make of it, soon it will become just like WWF prefix fighting becuase its end goal is about business & entertainment not about martial art.

Same with muay thai, mauy thai traditional style of fighting is only available in Thailand. Here in the west modification have to be made like majority of muay thai boute here have remove the openning rituals of "dancing". Becuase it is not crowd pleasing.

UFC is part entertainment, but the techniques and fighting are as real as you can get (excluding biting, eye gouging and elbowing).

In the first 5 UFCs, the only techniques not allowed were biting and eye gouging.

Case in point.

UFC 1

Gerard Gordeau vs. Teila Tuili (UFC 1)

Gordeau was a Dutch Savate champ (kickboxing). Tuli was a 500 lb Sumo wrestler. Tuli tried to shuffle Gordeau into the corner but got hit by a flurry of kicks and punches that sent the Sumo guy back. While in the corner, Gordeau threw a Thai kick at Tuili's head, sending a tooth flying out at 40 m/hr!

Pat Smith vs. Scott Morris (UFC 2)

Morris charges Smith. Smith lands a hard push kick into Morris's chest which knocks him down. On the ground, Smith unleases 5 elbow srikes to Morris's head and he get's KOd after the 3rd strike!

Keith Hackney vs. Joe Son (UFC 5 or 6).

Keith Hackney was a kenpo/tiger-kungfu fighter, with very little grappling experience but pretty good striking ability. Joe Son was a street fighter type.
Hackney eventually got taken down by Son. Hackney rolled into the cross body position and punches Son 5 times in the crotch!

Keith Hackney vs. Emmanuel Yarbough.

Yarbough was a 600 lb sumo wrestler with about a 5" height advantage! Hackney threw some hard low side kicks and round kicks to check Yarbough, who shook them off. Hackney closes and lands a palm strike into Yarbough's chin and down he goes!!

[sherwinc]

If you are trying to say nothing is perfect than you are right. However there inefficient ways of training and then there are better more efficient ways of training.

There is no one on the face of the planet that is invincible or can win every fight (just because some fighter has gone undefeated doesn’t mean someone out there somewhere couldn't beat him). There is no perfect system either. There are some systems that can teach you self-defense faster while training you to be both proficient and effective.

But in general it takes years to learn Karate proficiently, it takes even longer to be proficient in Kung Fu. However you can learn to be proficient and effective with defensive firearms in just a few weeks, or with 6-8 hours a week (2 hours a day 3-4 days a week) if trained efficiently you can be proficient and effective in under a year in empty hands.

You guys want to overcomplicate this shit. Learning to fight and being proficient and effective isn't rocket science, its physical and psychological science, and relatively easy if you understand training for the goal of self-defense there are simple steps, drills, and techniques that can teach you in a short amount of time. It may not be pretty, subtle, or extensive but it can be effective. I have seen good boxers come off the street and a year later their taking heads off in the ring, of course as time goes by they get better with experience but that doesn’t take away the fact they were good to go in 6 months to a year.

There is nothing wrong with learning MAs for a hobby, to get in shape, to learn holistic healing, or eastern medicine, spiritual, or cultural reasons, but then to turn around and say look how deadly it is at fighting and how effective it is at self-defense is a farce when you compare it to other systems that are self-defense specific.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[sherwinc]

So, beside fighting lions and tiger And going around picking fights with people What do you think would be a good venue or way to put your skills to the test while providing some way so you don’t loose an eye or a wind pipe?

I understand the UFCs and Pride are not perfect venues, but what are the alternatives? If you have a better way (I am not talking about fighting lions or mythical beasts) then tell us.

A very very very very gooooooddddddd questionssss..... thanks....


the most closest to the real fight in order to test your skills is:

by using defensive hand/forearm actions like forearm/hand Blocking, Intercepting, Neutralizing, Yeilding, Trading Blows, etc.......

and not by Forearm Covering, or using your Head to intercept opponents fist.....

why????
cause it will only look you like a Human Dummy - and the effect of Human Dummys head is a Brain Damage someday cause the head cannot tolerate an enourmous amount of fist impact landed made by the opponent in every match that they struggle.....

i mean, both of the fighters are Human Dummy and it is incorrect.....

the clossest thing to a real fight is to have a defensive forearm/hand that i already mentioned......

Approved???????

[sherwinc]

UFC is part entertainment, but the techniques and fighting are as real as you can get (excluding biting, eye gouging and elbowing).

In the first 5 UFCs, the only techniques not allowed were biting and eye gouging.

Case in point.

UFC 1

Gerard Gordeau vs. Teila Tuili (UFC 1)

Gordeau was a Dutch Savate champ (kickboxing). Tuli was a 500 lb Sumo wrestler. Tuli tried to shuffle Gordeau into the corner but got hit by a flurry of kicks and punches that sent the Sumo guy back. While in the corner, Gordeau threw a Thai kick at Tuili's head, sending a tooth flying out at 40 m/hr!

Pat Smith vs. Scott Morris (UFC 2)

Morris charges Smith. Smith lands a hard push kick into Morris's chest which knocks him down. On the ground, Smith unleases 5 elbow srikes to Morris's head and he get's KOd after the 3rd strike!

Keith Hackney vs. Joe Son (UFC 5 or 6).

Keith Hackney was a kenpo/tiger-kungfu fighter, with very little grappling experience but pretty good striking ability. Joe Son was a street fighter type.
Hackney eventually got taken down by Son. Hackney rolled into the cross body position and punches Son 5 times in the crotch!

Keith Hackney vs. Emmanuel Yarbough.

Yarbough was a 600 lb sumo wrestler with about a 5" height advantage! Hackney threw some hard low side kicks and round kicks to check Yarbough, who shook them off. Hackney closes and lands a palm strike into Yarbough's chin and down he goes!!

but, it is still considered as a HUMAN DUMMY

both fighters are Human Dummy

no emphasize of forearm/hand blocking, intercepting, neutralizing, deflecting, yeilding, trading blows, etc.....

instead, when the opponent attacks they just do forearm/hand covering, and blocking the opponents punch using their head (human dummy)

[sherwinc]

Gracie won. No matter how you try to dress it up. Yes?

now i know that stamina is a very important thing in a commercialized type of match.....

the more the longer the fight, the more entertaining, the more money, the customers will get a ticket again for the next match.....

another income again for the best commercialized martial arts invention....

another income again for both human dummies.....

[sherwinc]

Sherwinc get the gracies in action tapes. They have bareknuckle, no rule fights, and there is no charge if you injure the opponent. But the kung fu guys still lost. Some competitions like the IVC still have the old UFC rules, whcih were also bareknuckle no rule events but the deadly kung fu still lost Sherwinc. No how about you and your instructor Ashida Kim practice those deadly moves.

i am not familiar with the gracies action tapes.....

but....

in order to stop the big truck, get its spark plug.....

just like....

in order to stop ThaiBri and Diarrheanation - pluck their eyes......

Note:
a simple solution yet hard to solve

[darrianation]

A very very very very gooooooddddddd questionssss..... thanks....


the most closest to the real fight in order to test your skills is:

by using defensive hand/forearm actions like forearm/hand Blocking, Intercepting, Neutralizing, Yeilding, Trading Blows, etc.......

and not by Forearm Covering, or using your Head to intercept opponents fist.....

why????
cause it will only look you like a Human Dummy - and the effect of Human Dummys head is a Brain Damage someday cause the head cannot tolerate an enourmous amount of fist impact landed made by the opponent in every match that they struggle.....

i mean, both of the fighters are Human Dummy and it is incorrect.....

the clossest thing to a real fight is to have a defensive forearm/hand that i already mentioned......

Approved???????

So shedick the great shershit you never answered the damn question. How do you prove that you can do it?

The shit you just mentioned is legal in the UFCs! Yes you can do your defensive hand/forearm actions like forearm/hand Blocking, Intercepting, Neutralizing, Yeilding, Trading Blows, etc....... now how well it will work is another story.

If it works I am sure in future UFCs it will become very common.

[sherwinc]

So shedick the great shershit you never answered the damn question. How do you prove that you can do it?

The shit you just mentioned is legal in the UFCs! Yes you can do your defensive hand/forearm actions like forearm/hand Blocking, Intercepting, Neutralizing, Yeilding, Trading Blows, etc....... now how well it will work is another story.

If it works I am sure in future UFCs it will become very common.

but they are still Human Dummies..... they did not emphasize Defense (forearm/hand smashing against opponents forearm/hand to defend attacks)

note:

defending and attacking by forearm smashing against opponents forearm like in this animated gif:

take a closer look at their forearms........