Why are traditional martial arts seen as "ineffective"?

[konghan]

the only thing I have to say right now is...OH MY GOD I have just seen the coolest damn thing I have ever seen (I'm watching Club Dread and for those of you who have seen it this chick gets topless and does some awesome gymnasttics stuff) anyway back to kung fu. I have a problem with any martial art that does not evolve, if a TMA evolves to compete along with modern day martial arts, it is no longer a TMA it has become modernized. My BJJ instructor also is a master of Kung Fu San Soo, which he incorporates into the BJJ training, but Kung Fu San Soo is not a TMA because it has adapted to meet the demands of the modern warrior.

Thank you and goodnight

The only evolution here is ring fighting but as far as street fighting there is nothing to evolve anymore. Street fighting is street fighting anything goes it maybe one on one, multiple fighters, or armed fighters. What else is there to evolved in a street fight? In fact street fighting in the old days are more dangerouse then they are now.

Ring fighting is evolving in such a way to cater to the needs of spectators for more action. or for something new & different. Before we have only boxing, the MT, then kickboxing, then Bruce Lee came along, karate, judo, wrestling, WWF wrestling, UFC, k-1, san shou now people are demanding for more.

But in the streets its always the same & its for real thats` what TMA is focusing.

[DrAgOn-T]

mma is extremely close to a street fight, people always come up with new technique, and more efficent ways to apply techniques always in existence. that is the evolution of martial arts, the incorporation of new ideas into a style to make it as effective as possible with as little wasted time, and energy.

[DrAgOn-T]

well if street fighting and ring fighting are so differant who would you pick to win in a street fight Antonio "Minotauro" Noguiera, or Bubba the drunken redneck? Or for that matter lets say Bubba vs. Remy Bonjensky? Mike Tyson? or any other professional fighter/kickboxer/boxer.

[IPON]

If MMA is just like a street fight then....

*the majority of player would not use steroids
*would not know thier opponent and therefore would not scout for the strengths and weaknesses
*would be able to take a match at anytime any place with no excuse for amount of training or injury
* they would be allowed weapons in teh ring
*there would be no morality regarding the extent of injury
*there would be no weight classes and no judges

Shall I keep going or do you get the picture

[IPON]

that is the evolution of martial arts, the incorporation of new ideas into a style to make it as effective as possible with as little wasted time, and energy.

riiiiight matches that can last 15, 20 30 minutes.......truely represents real fighting

[DrAgOn-T]

ok if you want to nit pick it then what the hell is the point in learning martial arts in the first place a 9mm defeats any style even the great wing chun "iron vest" technique.
I didn't say it was exactly I said it was very close. There are still open weight tournaments, no there are no weapons since someone would definately die, one on one because then all it turns into is a bar room brawl. since your saying mixed martial arts are pretty much "safe" let me know when your competing in the next UFC, I'll be sure to watch it. Why do we even talk about street fighting anyway? it is a completely chaotic scene where people get killed or scarred/crippled for life. hell at a local bar here in alaska, a month ago some guy was choked by a bouncer who didn't know what the hell he was doing and died. Besides the odds of you running into someone who actually knows what the hell they are doing are very slim.

So in short if you think MMA is just too "unrealistic" for you, go get warmed up in a parking lot, then go to a bar and pick a fight with about twenty drunk hell's angels and let me know how it turns out.

[DrAgOn-T]

riiiiight matches that can last 15, 20 30 minutes.......truely represents real fighting

whatever dude I'm tired of trying to explain things to idiots.

[sherwinc]

The only evolution here is ring fighting but as far as street fighting there is nothing to evolve anymore. Street fighting is street fighting anything goes it maybe one on one, multiple fighters, or armed fighters. What else is there to evolved in a street fight? In fact street fighting in the old days are more dangerouse then they are now.

Ring fighting is evolving in such a way to cater to the needs of spectators for more action. or for something new & different. Before we have only boxing, the MT, then kickboxing, then Bruce Lee came along, karate, judo, wrestling, WWF wrestling, UFC, k-1, san shou now people are demanding for more.

But in the streets its always the same & its for real thats` what TMA is focusing.

you're right........


how about changing fighting place.....

instead of RING MATCH why dont they spar on top of the HARD TABLE 1meter by 4meters in size???????

rules?????
he who surrenders first, or he who first fall under the table is considered as defeat..........

assuming that the table is on top of the high building, and ground under the table is a deep car parking area......

once you fall considered dead.......

or.............

sparring on top of the taxi car??????????
he who first fall looses, no referrees to stop/break when hitted by fists......, no body protectors, no rounds of fights that reaches up to 12 rounds......

Note:
in a street fight, there is no ring rope that you can send your back, instead, in a street fight, there are a lot of hard sharp corner walls(or other available obstacles) for you to use while ROPE in the ringside is useless for you to hit your opponent's back there......

My instructor always said, never attempt to step both of your feet backwards, always do step forward or sidewards and no retreating step.....

in a boxing ring...... retreating step hits your opponents back unto the ring rope...... he can deal with it.....

but in a streetfight...... retreating step hits your opponents back unto the sharp/hard wall...... now you can corner him to that wall and he has no available space to retreat step..... he cant fight while he is leaning his back on the wall......

[konghan]

mma is extremely close to a street fight, people always come up with new technique, and more efficent ways to apply techniques always in existence. that is the evolution of martial arts, the incorporation of new ideas into a style to make it as effective as possible with as little wasted time, and energy.

As I have said before, street fighting has always been the same in fact street fighting is more safer now than it was 100 years ago.

The new MMA are more geared in coming up with new technique that they can present to the spectators in fact those techniques are nothing new they are only good on one on one regulated fight. But not in a street fighting espacially if the fiht involve several number of people, ex. rumble or gang fights.

In fact in a street fight, I`m 5'5 145 lbs, if I`m confronted by Mike Tyson or his kind I would probably use a knife or if I have a gun I`ll use it on him I`m not stupid to figth him bare handed nor any of those so called champions.

[sherwinc]

mma is extremely close to a street fight, people always come up with new technique, and more efficent ways to apply techniques always in existence. that is the evolution of martial arts, the incorporation of new ideas into a style to make it as effective as possible with as little wasted time, and energy.

the new techniques that MMA invented is there already in KungFu.... the reason why the more the KungFu art is not exposed to the public - the more it is deadly and brutal........

kungfu is a century proven martial arts, there's no need to invent another effective martial art techniques like what MMA did, why??????

cause we have only 2 hands and 2 feet, nothing more......

[DrAgOn-T]

there are heel hooks in kung fu, nobody told me!!!

[DrAgOn-T]

ok lets get it straight once and for all, kung fu, tai chi, and all that other crap is for martial artists. boxing, kickboxing, jiu jitsu, and wrestling are for F-I-G-H-T-E-R-S. End of discussion.

[sherwinc]

ok lets get it straight once and for all, kung fu, tai chi, and all that other is for martial artists.

Very True !!!!!!!

boxing, kickboxing, jiu jitsu, and wrestling are for F-I-G-H-T-E-R-S in the Ring Match Only, and not effective in the Real Streetfight World. End of discussion.

Very True !!!!!!!

[akja]

ok lets get it straight once and for all, kung fu, tai chi, and all that other crap is for martial artists. boxing, kickboxing, jiu jitsu, and wrestling are for F-I-G-H-T-E-R-S. End of discussion.

Only half true.

A true fighter can fight ring or street. If it's in our head, we can adapt. There can't de a division of what "we can't do" or it's a waste of time.

Street and ring are the same if you have the right instructor!

[darrianation]

The only evolution here is ring fighting but as far as street fighting there is nothing to evolve anymore. Street fighting is street fighting anything goes it maybe one on one, multiple fighters, or armed fighters. What else is there to evolved in a street fight? In fact street fighting in the old days are more dangerouse then they are now.

Ring fighting is evolving in such a way to cater to the needs of spectators for more action. or for something new & different. Before we have only boxing, the MT, then kickboxing, then Bruce Lee came along, karate, judo, wrestling, WWF wrestling, UFC, k-1, san shou now people are demanding for more.

But in the streets its always the same & its for real thats` what TMA is focusing.

I disagree with you on this one very much. There have been several studies conducted through police depts. in the U.S. (also Military) and I believe Canada (B.C.), and Australia among others. Many of these studies show that fear and adrenaline even in the trained professional can be affected by distorted perception and limited the range of fine motor skilled movement.

We learn that people often don’t see the knife that stabs them, or the gun that shoots them. We find that fancy footwork, and other fine motor skilled movements don’t work under stressful situations (that are so common in Kung Fu, don’t work) on a consistent basis.

Through my own observations in street fighting, working in a professional manner with other TMA trained guys that they often resort to straight punches and thrust kicks in a fight, their fancy WC or KF techniques are nowhere to be seen.

Sammy Franco, Rich Dimitri, Geoff Thompson have all done good work showing that most TMAs lack functionality. Others who have shown this and have either done studies of their own or through their real word experiences have come the same conclusions. Jeff cooper, W.E. Fairbairn, Jim Wagner, Massad Ayoob, rex Applegate, Kelly Mcann (A.K.A. Jim Grover), Darren Lauer, Gabe Suarez, Christian, Gatica, Thomas Sotis, and many, many more less known people.

Now there may not be any new techniques out there but there are better methods of training, and new and innovative applications for those techniques. There are new philosophies, tactics, strategies, and technologies out there. We as martial artists need to seek them out and employ the ones that work, and rid ourselves of the practices/routines that are wasteful.