Why are traditional martial arts seen as "ineffective"?

[sherwinc]

Somehow I thought it would be none! You talk as one with no real experience!

Don’t tell me what you think you can do to a hardened street thug, because until you meet a real criminal with real criminal intent in a dark alley and you have to fight for your life… until then all your training is just theory!

HAW HAW HAW HAW

As a KungFu Concepts...... i never did walk into the dark alley, it is not my fighting place....... instead, i walk in the edged of the road and just in case there a criminal, the people and the police in the sorrounding will instantly notified, so, police responce is immediately granted....... cause kungfu usually uses the available obstacles of his sorroundings......

a better place for boxing is only in the ring...... unlike in kungfu is anywhere.......

[sherwinc]

That’s a crock of shit, if your art is ineffective without eye strikes and wind pipe stuff then that tells me that you practice a lot of worthless uneeded techniques. Why then should you not train soley in just windpipe crusing and eye strikes?

because we are not commercialized......... we have to finished the fight instantly in order to face another opponent (assuming multiple opponent)

and even thou how big and strong the opponent when hitted in its adam's apple will surely fall down and dead for a matter of less than 20 seconds......

example:
try to hit your instructor in his eyes - then you will see that he cannot see the beauty of nature earth until he dies on his old age..... by that - it could not reach up to 12rounds of fights HAW HAW HAW HAW

[DrAgOn-T]

Here is what I think: TMA are simply obsolete. Just like any other science (which martial arts definately are) technologies get replaced by, more efficent, techniques. Kung fu was hardcore back in the day, but quite simply it has gone beyond its usefulness, it has contributed a great deal to current martial arts, but fighting has evolved beyond the ridiculous poses and the pretty flying dragon kicks. I don't know how many of you have actually been in a fight, but pretty is the very last thing it is. Personally I'll use the triple jab followed with a straight left over the shaolin fist any day.

[DrAgOn-T]

ok now I'm looking back through these posts and seeing all the "commercialized" crap. lets say there is some truth in the commercialized thing, and if the only way to tell the differance is to train in it and then try it out, why the hell do I need to waste time even testing it, when I can go across the street to the Gracie Barra jiu jitsu school, and then over to Polaris Boxing and learn something that I KNOW works, and then go put the first kung fu guy I see into a heel-hook.

(just joking so don't any kung fu guys get all pissy)

[darrianation]

ok now I'm looking back through these posts and seeing all the "commercialized" crap. lets say there is some truth in the commercialized thing, and if the only way to tell the differance is to train in it and then try it out, why the hell do I need to waste time even testing it, when I can go across the street to the Gracie Barra jiu jitsu school, and then over to Polaris Boxing and learn something that I KNOW works, and then go put the first kung fu guy I see into a heel-hook.

(just joking so don't any kung fu guys get all pissy)

Here, here…. Exactly DrAgOn-T ! And by the way boxing and BJJ good combination!

Sherwinc you take things to literally. That dark alley can be anywhere. At the bank, outside a movie theater, a restaurant, in a parking lot, at a ball game, even in your own home.

It doesn’t matter anyway because when ever a kung Fu guy looses you’ll just say he learns fake commercializes KF, what a great way to hide from the truth. It’s called denial!

You are also living in a fantasy world if you think and I quote “we have to finished the fight instantly” It’s a good concept and admirable goal but if you really believe you can end fights instantly with one strike then you are a fool (or super human). In reality it doesn’t work like that unless you get lucky I’ll always take good luck when comes my way but I will not count on luck to be my ally every time. Other than that I’ll stick to the high percentage strikes the ones that are effective on a more consistent bases.

If you can make a throat strike land effectively 100% of the time then why would you need to train in anything else?

So even in a uncommercialized KF school with one teacher and 1 or 2 students hid up in a cave or down in the sifu’s basement practicing in secret, what makes you think this would teach someone to fight any better? Obviously it stands to reason the smaller the class the better the learning because the instructor has more time to identify problems and correct them.

However there are still some problems, like because there are so few people practicing that new blood and ideas do not get infused into the system. The system does not grow and the system stagnates. A system that does not grow (changes for the better through adding new technology and techniques that work while ridding itself of thing that don’t) is a dead system. You also fall into the loop of predictability because you learn everyone else’s style and ways/tricks of fighting and it becomes predictable and complacent. Also just because someone trains in secret does not make it any more effective.

I think you are in a Kung Fu cult. You need an intervention and deprogramming. Please seek help!

[Tom Yum]

try to hit your instructor in his eyes - then you will see that he cannot see the beauty of nature earth until he dies on his old age..... by that - it could not reach up to 12rounds of fights HAW HAW HAW HAW

You need to get laid and it shows.

[thaibxr]

nothingness

so if I live in Canada and nothing was created here what should I train in then

[CKD]

Whats really funny is whenever a traditional art loses he went to a mcdojo or he was not good or not conditioned. Like I often see people say the early UFC fighters were not experineced enouph. Hmmmm lets see we had a 5th ranked boxer, Van Clief a martial art legend, Gordeau a savatte champion, one of the first americans to win the colegiate sumo competetions in Japan, a person they specifically chosen because they say him can Frank Dux in a street fight, European judo champion, sambo champion and several other champions in there respective styles. Not to mention Rorion beating the Jet and the tons of other challenge matches. Can someone please direct me to a school that teaches good tma? If I wanted self defense I would choose a BJJ school with an emphasis on self defense and vale tudo aspect of bjj then a karate school.

[Tom Yum]

There were some good fighters. Orlando Wiet was a competitive Thaiboxer, Ron Van Clief was a 10th degree black belt in Kempo, Pat Smith was an accomplished K-1 fighter, Ken Shamrock was a top shootfighter, Gerard Gordeau was a Savate Champ and Minoki Ichihara, the Karate master.

The matches looked pretty akward though, mostly because the stand up fighters didn't know how to handle the ground or each other.

The fighters of MMA today are in much better shape than the original days and they are well rounded. They can go to the ground without being a fish out of water.

[Tom Yum]

Can someone please direct me to a school that teaches good tma? If I wanted self defense I would choose a BJJ school with an emphasis on self defense and vale tudo aspect of bjj then a karate school.

Beware Sherwinc and his obsession with kung-fu...jj

[CKD]

I have found real kung fu. http://www.mcdojo.com/videos/1vs3.mpeg I wish attackers would come at me in a row and jump up. Just to satisfy curiousity the big dude is trained in Hung Gar.

[konghan]

This one is for those people who think traditional styles won't hold up against modern MMA practitioners.....

K-1 fighters lost the event 7-0 against Kyokushin practitioners....... this link really speaks for itself

http://ko.sherdog.com/pictures/k1_053004/k1_01.htm

As per Nebula

[Tom Yum]

Kyokushin karate fighters train very realistically with high intensity.

[konghan]

I have found real kung fu. http://www.mcdojo.com/videos/1vs3.mpeg I wish attackers would come at me in a row and jump up. Just to satisfy curiousity the big dude is trained in Hung Gar.

Who says kung fu is useless & not an effective street fighting? that`s why in Asia espacially in Korea, China & Taiwan were MA is almsot widespread it was always taugh for police or riot squad to break up big crowds.

That guy there from the looks of it, he is a middle age man ( 40-55 yrs old maybe) going up against three younger man.

[konghan]

Kyokushin karate fighters train very realistically with high intensity.

Its still karate.