Medival Knight VS Japanese Samauri (sp)

[Hardball]

We'd all do well to remember that fighting is fighting, especially when it's life and death. Similar techniques will be found in every culture and nearly every period, because when your life is at stake, you tend to get pretty creative. People discoverthat a thing like a punch or kick works, and they keep doing it. It works virtually no matter who you are, so it survives. Knights and Samurai were both, in a manner of speaking, "knights." Both were warriors who were assigned to fight the battles of their leader, and both did so for more than just honor. When you distill it down to the most essential qualities, geography, not training, is the main difference.

I Agree with everything you said, BUT, what about the preperation that goes into a good kick................ie. The stretching and condtioning.. I know for me, when I first walked into a dojo my legs were too stiff to really do any damage with a kick but with constant stretching they developed into powerful and useful weapons.

[BoarSpear]

If you liked the link you should look into Hans Tolhofer's manual i described earlier it is much more in depth. there is an excellent link to an article about non-asian martial arts at

http://www.colorq.org/Articles/2003/martial.htm

it seems many believe that all martial arts are asian based in one way or another or else they believe them to be crude. This seems a form of bigotry, only the asians were smart enough or had need of martial arts? hardly... did the 2 hands and 2 feet work different in asia? ...a weapon in your hand is a weapon in your hand no matter where you were born. yes the type of weapon varies due to how it was made and what it was made off and to a degree by its intended purpose (Blunt truama,trapping,cutting, thrusting etc.) but the idea that when fighting only asians developed techniques that were recorded and taught to others is very closeminded. Often these poeple are referred to as asiaphiles in circles that have bothered to realize man has been bashing man in the head since we were put on this planet. the first technique was probably a grab...one caveman pulling another (caveman dating) then the hit..hey let go of me whap...hmmm you hit harder than me...me get big stick to hit you...evoulution of the martial arts. they happened all over the planet not just asia.

[Blue Wave Gym]

book of five rings

screw who's better trained, who'd win in a 1 on 1 sword duel, the samurai no doubt, who'd win on the battle field, the knights no doubt

[Hardball]

If you liked the link you should look into Hans Tolhofer's manual i described earlier it is much more in depth. there is an excellent link to an article about non-asian martial arts at

http://www.colorq.org/Articles/2003/martial.htm

it seems many believe that all martial arts are asian based in one way or another or else they believe them to be crude. This seems a form of bigotry, only the asians were smart enough or had need of martial arts? hardly... did the 2 hands and 2 feet work different in asia? ...a weapon in your hand is a weapon in your hand no matter where you were born. yes the type of weapon varies due to how it was made and what it was made off and to a degree by its intended purpose (Blunt truama,trapping,cutting, thrusting etc.) but the idea that when fighting only asians developed techniques that were recorded and taught to others is very closeminded. Often these poeple are referred to as asiaphiles in circles that have bothered to realize man has been bashing man in the head since we were put on this planet. the first technique was probably a grab...one caveman pulling another (caveman dating) then the hit..hey let go of me whap...hmmm you hit harder than me...me get big stick to hit you...evoulution of the martial arts. they happened all over the planet not just asia.

I'm too cheap to spend any cash. LOL

[Hardball]

screw who's better trained, who'd win in a 1 on 1 sword duel, the samurai no doubt, who'd win on the battle field, the knights no doubt

This is an intellectual discussion. You have to include reasoning or bibliography. Why do you think the samauri is a better warrior?

[Hardball]

Don't you figure the knights (and everyone else who fought as a profession) learned to stretch and such? I mean, the ancient greeks knew how, and even painted pictures of their exercise regimens on vases. Stands to reason that the knights of medieval Europe would have been privy to the same basic knowledge. Where the Japanese Samurai had meditation and ritual preparation, the knights had devotion to the Christian faith and prayer. Where the Japanese had dojos, the knights had guilds and training halls. When you look at it without the cultural bias of why each chose to do what they did, the warriors of all civilizations served the same purpose: Defending the political system and the beaurocracy, strengthening the economy, and perpetuating the social ideals and philosophies of those they serve. The tools they used were tools of force and persuasion, and I believe that any culture that stood the test of time long enough to be remembered employed very, very similar tactics.

Thanks, you should have been a lawyer. Have you read about Ancient Babylon? The walls of Babylon were reputley impenatrable. That would be modern day Iraq. What's your view on the invisibility of Ancient Babylon.

Source: The Richest Man in Bablyon, George Clason

[BoarSpear]

I would say the very existence of the Murder Stroke proves that the samurai sword and the european sword usage were apples and oranges. I believe the surprise factor of the murder stroke could well have given an edge at least once...while the samurai was going wtf?

[BoarSpear]

I'm too cheap to spend any cash. LOL

hmm really? you are to cheap to spend $45.00 to see another point of view for armed and unarmed combat? i find that very cheap if one lesson opens a new door for thought... and believe me, you study that text you will learn something. it also has very interesting Man Vs woman judiacial Duels, The man is in a waist deep hole with a wooden mace . The women is armed with a 4 to 5 pound rock in her Veil outside the pit... if he climbs out or is pulled out, the duel was stopped and he is executed. At least be one of those cheap #%*#%* who sit in barnes and noble and reads it if ya wont buy it.
Its 95% drawings so it shouldn't be too tough for anyone to understand.

[Hardball]

hmm really? you are to cheap to spend $45.00 to see another point of view for armed and unarmed combat? i find that very cheap if one lesson opens a new door for thought... and believe me, you study that text you will learn something. it also has very interesting Man Vs woman judiacial Duels, The man is in a waist deep hole with a wooden mace . The women is armed with a 4 to 5 pound rock in her Veil outside the pit... if he climbs out or is pulled out, the duel was stopped and he is executed. At least be one of those cheap #%*#%* who sit in barnes and noble and reads it if ya wont buy it.
Its 95% drawings so it shouldn't be too tough for anyone to understand.

Great, I like the Barnes and Noble idea!!!! $45.00 is a lot in this economy--won't even fill my gas tank up. Seriously though, I'm gonna check out your reference. Library or Barnes and Nobel.

[Hardball]

I would say the very existence of the Murder Stroke proves that the samurai sword and the european sword usage were apples and oranges.

Is this a sword technique? Family secret or is it documented somewhere?

[Tant01]

Is this a sword technique? Family secret or is it documented somewhere?

Same as Hissatsu... "final blow" or "coup de grace" in Japanese?

[BoarSpear]

Murder Stroke

The technique is uh rather UNUSUAL in that mid movement they "shift" too a two handed grip on thier sword BLADE. This would be done to intercept an initial attack, at this point with the tip of thier sword pointed at your neck the sword is overhead . This position left the swordsmen the option of simply thrusting you in the face/neck or swinging the pommel overhead like an axe down on top of your head. This is tough to visualize without either seeing it done or seeing the drawings from Talhoffer's text. Also remember the HUGE cross gaurds these swords had. They used the pommels as hammers and hooks.

[BoarSpear]

Btw paladin press sells this book, thats where i got mine i think it was 29.95 or so from them a couple years back. it also has amazing wrestling/throws for unarmed combat that many of you will recognize. It is actually a professional fencing manual from 1467. it is said to be one of the most influential and lavishly drawn manuals of the middle ages (according to inside liner) It is the by far the best I have ever seen.Talhoffer was a Fechtmeister (fight master) from Hans Liechtenaur's lineage. Liechtenaur is famous for combining Austrian wrestling with the dagger.
ISBN 1-85367-418-4 This concludes this advertisement

[Garland]

Hmmm...who would win Samurai or Moro warriors in the southern phillipines???
Oh, wait, what about the closest thing to "samurai", WW2 Japanese officers who carried swords...

I think I know the outcome.

as for "medieval knights"...read Talhoffer's "Fechtbuck"...they really didn't have a whole lot of shit going for them in the ways of technical and scientific fighting prowess and technique, much less tactics.

Samurai were well trained, well prepared, and completely dedicated to their cause, whereas Knights were brutish and had only size (perhaps) over samurai.

[BoarSpear]

Hmmm...who would win Samurai or Moro warriors in the southern phillipines???
Oh, wait, what about the closest thing to "samurai", WW2 Japanese officers who carried swords...

I think I know the outcome.

as for "medieval knights"...read Talhoffer's "Fechtbuck"...they really didn't have a whole lot of shit going for them in the ways of technical and scientific fighting prowess and technique, much less tactics.

Samurai were well trained, well prepared, and completely dedicated to their cause, whereas Knights were brutish and had only size (perhaps) over samurai.

Oh youve read it already? you own it ? so they were crude and lacked tactics? plate 241 didnt look to common or simple but hey youre the expert.. I suppose you also read The Art Of War by Machiavelli before you said they lacked tactics in the middle ages?